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Post by lindenchase on Apr 29, 2009 13:54:28 GMT
I hate sexism when it truly exists. I used to work in the stockroom in a bookshop, and it was the best job I ever had. But the new manager in the shop decided that being in the stockroom 'wasn't the job for a woman' and employed her son-in-law to do it, and shoved me into being in charge of the children's section - much more suitable for me  THAT'S sexist. But (potentially) splitting up a successful team of people for the sake of being 'correct' is just silly. And Harriet Harman's proposal is exactly fighting those kind of prejudices. To repeat myself: She never mentioned TopGear of even the BBC specifically. I have seen loads of cases where talented young women were passed over for promotion and where the jobs went to  young men who couldn't even tie their own bloody shoelaces. We don't live in a perfect world and apparently those measurements are still necessary. |
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Post by lymaze on Apr 29, 2009 13:55:05 GMT
I know there are women only teams.
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Post by TheDaisy on Apr 29, 2009 13:59:37 GMT
I know there are women only teams. There are. Another job I had was for a clothing store that catered only for women, and all the staff in my store WERE women. Men weren't discriminated against - there were some men that worked for the company, but not very many - mostly they were in Head Office, and most of the delivery drivers were men. |
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Post by inky on Apr 29, 2009 14:01:14 GMT
Ms Hapless thinks it is sooooo important that she isn't going to enforce it until 2013 by which time, be you man, woman, alien or whatever, if this lot don't get their fingers out there'll be no jobs/work/pay to worry about, equal or otherwise.
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Post by beckstar on Apr 29, 2009 14:03:04 GMT
A lot of what the Act is trying to deal with is pay inequalities, some of which are related to the fact that more women than men work part time, some to the maternity leave laws, which leave women 'behind' in terms of pay rises and pensions, and some down to sheer old fashioned discrimination that women aren't worth as much as men. It's interesting to note that female and male MPs get paid the same, so Ms Harman has nowt to worry about...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 14:03:23 GMT
I think that TV is such a visible workplace it's easier to target those programmes which are gender dominated. Whereas in schools, hospitals, Parliament and other such environments teachers and nurses are on the whole mainly women. I think it would better to cut the crap and just hire the best person (no gender issue) for the position. Sadly, this is not likely to happen without some laws coming in. I think male teachers in schools are good as they are sometimes needed to keep boys (and some girls) in check.
In Parliament there are so few women but maybe they don't want to do that kind of job.
In some respects I believe women are better at getting something done rather than fannying about and procrastinating. However men are better at some things too. I do think a lot of it is how the brain actually works and not the body we are actually in. Like having a male thinking mind in a woman's body (analyical, logic, spacial ability coupled with intuition and emotion) can be good and vice versa.
Sadly TG is a case study which can be easily picked on by tabloids.
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Post by beckstar on Apr 29, 2009 14:04:16 GMT
Ms Hapless thinks it is sooooo important that she isn't going to enforce it until 2013 by which time, be you man, woman, alien or whatever, if this lot don't get their fingers out there'll be no jobs/work/pay to worry about, equal or otherwise. Nor will there be the same government in power, the way they're going at the moment... |
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Post by lymaze on Apr 29, 2009 14:04:36 GMT
Or pig flu will get us all.  At present all I want is a permanent job so I can keep my house. I don't really care if anyone is getting overlooked because of their sex. I am more than happy to be overlooked just as long as I get paid. In fact I'd quite like the job I'm in at present which is only temporary but sadly the woman who took 2 years off to have 2 kids has come back and turned it into a part time job. So part time in fact that she is never here to do it because her children are always sick. So sometimes equality can lead to inequality too. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 14:06:56 GMT
A lot of what the Act is trying to deal with is pay inequalities, some of which are related to the fact that more women than men work part time, some to the maternity leave laws, which leave women 'behind' in terms of pay rises and pensions, and some down to sheer old fashioned discrimination that women aren't worth as much as men. It's interesting to note that female and male MPs get paid the same, so Ms Harman has nowt to worry about... and the second home allowance  some of these MPs need to do their job and stop being idiots. My local MP Mark Oaten, doesn't do anything! Nothing, unless evidence is provided, he's not very visible. I know a lot of stuff hasn't happened since his rent boy incident and losing his hair, he should have stopped and let someone more vibrant go in and make a difference. The lib dems are just so wet. |
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Post by lindenchase on Apr 29, 2009 14:07:46 GMT
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if overall there are more women working for the BBC than men, although I wouldn't vouch for the higher management positions.
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Post by lew on Apr 29, 2009 14:07:48 GMT
Women playing footie.......is like watching something embarrassing crawling down your leg......same for rugby, snooker mmm OK suppose, oh same for womens cricket not my cup of tea frankly, and I do like the above sports as long as men are playing them, it's far more interesting viewing rather than a bunch of women getting black eyes ;D
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Post by inky on Apr 29, 2009 14:08:19 GMT
At present all I want is a permanent job so I can keep my house. I don't really care if anyone is getting overlooked because of their sex. I am more than happy to be overlooked just as long as I get paid. I've been 'overlooked' (and paid) since 16th December and I'm quite getting used to it  Now if they can carry on 'overlooking' me until about the end of July (when canine maternal duties will be over) I will be a happy bunny  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 14:08:51 GMT
There are some very powerful women who are involved in the BBC Trust who come from different professions.
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Post by beckstar on Apr 29, 2009 14:09:30 GMT
Or pig flu will get us all. At present all I want is a permanent job so I can keep my house. I don't really care if anyone is getting overlooked because of their sex. I am more than happy to be overlooked just as long as I get paid. Unfortunately, that is a fairly typical female attitude that perpetuates the gender inequalities in the workplace... The present political and economic situation makes it difficult for women to take 'risks' in order to secure promotions, to move jobs etc, and so men, who statistically DO take those risks, get the better jobs and the higher pay. (and this isn't just bullsh*t, it's based on a study we've recently carried out at work) |
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Post by lymaze on Apr 29, 2009 14:19:13 GMT
Thank you. I call it survival.
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Post by Korri on Apr 29, 2009 14:22:16 GMT
S'pose it's a good excuse to have more of Sabine Schmidt, though... I love it when she proves Jeremy wrong! You stole my point I was just about to say that the only female presenter that they could get away with would be Sabine! |
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Post by inky on Apr 29, 2009 14:24:18 GMT
Thank you. I call it survivial. I agree. Without another salary to fall back on I have to do what I think is best FOR ME regardless. |
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Post by lew on Apr 29, 2009 14:27:22 GMT
Me and my children.....will always come first, so working and paying this mortgage I have comes first......frankly I don't give a stuff for political correctness.
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Post by beckstar on Apr 29, 2009 14:28:10 GMT
Thank you. I call it survivial. I agree. Without another salary to fall back on I have to do what I think is best FOR ME regardless. Oh absolutely. I think in this world we all have to do what is best for ourselves. My point is that some women don't feel they have the right or the ability to, say, ask for a pay rise, apply for that promotion etc, becuase they assume that because the workplace discriminates against women, the pay rise, or the job, will go to a bloke anyway, even if he has less skills, experience etc, and thus the 'women are worse' idea perpetuates itself year after year. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 14:32:52 GMT
I know of one example where a man forced out a far better candidate with emotional blackmail and professional doubt and then brought in a woman he knew in promise of a bonus.
I think it's disgusting.
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Post by lindenchase on Apr 29, 2009 14:33:37 GMT
I have three female friends who in the past two months have been offered new jobs. Offered, they didn't even need to apply. And all three hestitated and said: "Oh, I'm not sure I can do that. Do you think i should do it? What if I'm no good?"
Aaargh. Women are indeed their own worst enemy.
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Post by beckstar on Apr 29, 2009 14:34:16 GMT
I bet her bonus ended up being smaller than his did...
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Post by beckstar on Apr 29, 2009 14:35:30 GMT
I have three female friends who in the past two months have been offered new jobs. Offered, they didn't even need to apply. And all three hestitated and said: "Oh, I'm not sure I can do that. Do you think i should do it? What if I'm no good?" Aaargh. Women are indeed their own worst enemy. *nods* If I had a tenner for every time a woman in my workplace (local govt) said that kind of thing, I'd be retired in the sunshine by now... |
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Post by inky on Apr 29, 2009 14:37:04 GMT
I have three female friends who in the past two months have been offered new jobs. Offered, they didn't even need to apply. And all three hestitated and said: "Oh, I'm not sure I can do that. Do you think i should do it? What if I'm no good?" Aaargh. Women are indeed their own worst enemy. Women like that do not deserve to be called women. The few give the rest of us a bad name and TBH, if they are asking themselves the question, they probably do not have the skills to do the job. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 14:37:25 GMT
I bet her bonus ended up being smaller than his did... She hasn't got it. Honestly some of this sexist nonsense is a lot of bull. But I do agreed that women can be their own worst enemy regards to promotions etc. |
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Post by lindenchase on Apr 29, 2009 14:44:27 GMT
Women like that do not deserve to be called women. the few give the rest of us a bad name and TBH, ig they are asking themselves the question, they probably do not have the skills to do the job. Nope. All three are perfectly capable and talented women. Thankfully, in the end, they all three took the jobs they were offered. (I'm sure my threat of physical violence wasn't a factor in that. ;D) |
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Post by Vixen on Apr 29, 2009 15:02:55 GMT
My workplace is full of women, there's not a single man there. But that's not because we discriminate, it's because we don't get any males applying for jobs.
As for TV shows like Top Gear and Loose Women (the latter of which was pointed out earlier in the thread) do the general public really care whether the host team is all male or all female? More than likely not! They care about the quality of the programme that they are watching.
Sexism is such a strong subject, and it's one that will never be resolved. No matter what is done about it, there will always be one person that will stand up and say 'That's sexist'.
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Post by lindenchase on Apr 29, 2009 15:05:38 GMT
No matter what is done about it, there will always be one person that will stand up and say 'That's sexist'. And that person will be Dr Louise Livesey, the nutty tutor from Oxford! ;D |
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Post by ulstermayniac on Apr 29, 2009 15:06:35 GMT
All wonderful and valid points but what I still can't quite understand is why did they use TG to pin their argument on, whoever the article was written by or whoever mentioned it in the first place, surely they could have found a more appropriate example of an all male/female environment where inequality is a real issue or a threat.
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Post by Vixen on Apr 29, 2009 15:10:16 GMT
Technicallly they didn't just pin point Top Gear, they pin pointed the BBC, by using two programmes that are shown on that channel. I can understand where they are coming from, in Eastbenders, it is full of same cultural families, and on Top Gear, it's an all male team. That does count as sexism. It's just that no-one cares about it.
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I held you, you felt me, I touched you, you kissed me.......
At present all I want is a permanent job so I can keep my house. I don't really care if anyone is getting overlooked because of their sex. I am more than happy to be overlooked just as long as I get paid. 
some of these MPs need to do their job and stop being idiots.
Now if they can carry on 'overlooking' me until about the end of July (when canine maternal duties will be over) I will be a happy bunny 
